sub-Zone, sub-Drop: Hitting the Wall or Crash & Burn!

This post is reproduced from Wicked's blog with His permission. i have reposted it it as it appears to have inadvertently been deleted and i am aware that Dom and Sub zones and drops are of interest to many of Y/you at the moment.

i urge Y/you to visit Wicked's page, settled down and prepare Y/yourselves for a good read. Important points have been highlighted in red and my own comments in pink. Once again.. thank You Wicked for approving reporting here. i am most appreciative ...*smiles*

Sub-Drop: Crash and Burn in the Sub-Zone

- or Hitting the Wall!

The Wall

The Wall is one identification of the limit that the mind and body are physically capable of processing. Some submissives will talk about 'hitting the Wall' or 'White Out'.

This is going so far that the mind loses the ability to cope and can dissociate or retreat from reality.

A submissive can and may go fetal in this state and it is not something you should ever try to achieve as it can and may have permanent or lasting effects. It is to go beyond the threshold.

Important note here: subs are breakable!

Some people who experience such a graphic
or traumatic event never return
but remain essentially lost inside of their mind
for the remainder of their lives.

This is serious and the only reason I am writing about it is that this threshold is something that it is important to be aware of the existence of. this is especially true if you are new to the BDSM lifestyle and perhaps unaware of the potentials with which you are playing. The human mind is both strong and fragile. It should always be handled with the greatest care and concern.

The body has a finite capacity to process information. With every person the range of that ability varies. Within that range is further variation. For many people there is a real and true desire to achieve experiences just on the edge of that threshold.

Edge Play

We tend to call this edge play. In most cases Edge Play is a combination of:

• sensory or physical stimulation
• coupled to mental and
• sometimes even spiritual stimulation.

It is fairly easy to see the progress or path of physical stimulation techniques, it is much more difficult to evaluate or take a person MENTALLY into differing space.

With an establishment of trust between a Dominant and a submissive the submissive will generally begin to lower their mental walls or shields and allow their Dominant greater and greater access into their private realms. (to this one, this submission based on trust is the very foundation of the D/s relationship; without it no progress or edge work is possible)


Trust is coupled to the ability to process information. The stronger the trust, the further the submissive will allow themselves to go.

sub-Space

Achieving space for a new submissive is generally (initially) accidental.

There is a desire and a willingness to try and at some point that first barrier or mental threshold will be crossed and the submissive will find themselves 'in' space.

Often this is a frightening and exciting experience. A Dominant should not press that first experience of space but allow it to be full of pleasure and positive chemistries.

This will encourage the submissive to actively 'go to that place' in their minds during a scene.

To deepen their level of space the Dominant needs to proceed slowly and cautiously. It is essential to remember that trust is the key, if the Dominant says one thing and does another they are providing an unstable surface and the submissive will not trust them as deeply.

This will tend to prevent the submissive from releasing their vulnerability further. From a Dominant's standpoint the deeper you can take your submissive, the higher they can fly and the more stimulation they can sustain. Again it is important to note that there are sincere limits here.

Submissive's vary from day to day and moment to moment. (Yes, subs are human...and the goal is not always to achieve sub-space within a consistent eg: 5 minute period. Niether does it make the sub any less submissive if she cannot achieve sub-space every time..or even at all!)

On Monday they can space and be at maximum from having nipple clamps while on Tuesday they may need or want zipper's, full CBT or waxing to achieve the same euphoric state. It becomes essential for the Dominant to become so attuned to their submissive's current state that they know where their submissive is at on any given day.

There is no right or wrong here. It is merely that the brain may be full with other tasks on some days and only have the ability to 'allocate' a certain amount of space or energy toward processing.

With some submissives they will need and require more during times of stress (it almost appears that they become desensitized to lower levels of stimulation or need to overcome the 'stress' by higher levels) with other submissives their ability to process new stimulation during a period of stress is greatly reduced and in fact they may be unable to play during those times. Again, there is no right or wrong, simply variations. Learning such intimacies between partners is crucial.

Risk Reduction & Avoiding sub-Crash

Making an error can propel a submissive into a horrendous event or a scene that they 'feel'
later to have been in violation
to their needs, wants and desires.

This leaves the Dominant in a somewhat precarious position if they only play with that submissive occasionally. They simply cannot know what is going on. (This is particularly true of online psychological boundary or edge work)

For deeper or edge play I sincerely recommend that the people involved spend a great deal of time together learning each other prior to attempting to play along the threshold. This is not an area where you want to make any mistakes in evaluation or judgment.

The deeper a submissive goes into subspace the worse their communication skills become (verbal). (This is the point where the value of 'safewords' is questionable ... it is difficult to use a safeword in the zone.. where thinking is compromised and the ability to speak is compromised to the point of non-existence!!)


The Dominant should assume that not only can their submissive not evaluate what is dangerous to them, but that the chemistries flowing in their blood stream will essentially mask out their body signals which would normally tell them there are problems.

****When a submissive is in subspace
ALL of the responsibility for that submissive's safety
and welfare rest squarely on the Dominant.****

A submissive in deep space can endure broken bones, severe lacerations and many other forms of severe damage without knowing it. Since this type of damage is not what BDSM is about it becomes very important for a Dominant to know not only their submissive's skin, tissue, bone and muscular responses to various implements or toys, but also the full potentials of each implement or toy. (For many D/s people it is the mind that is the most vulnerable.. not all play employs physical toys or touch; the boundaries and edge work can validly takesplace with the mind, emotions and spirit and the use of humiliation can be particularly damaging if not monitored and managed carefully.)

Many submissives in deep space will appear or tend to encourage a Dominant into extending the play beyond the limits that a toy or implement has been used on them in the past. Essentially the submissive is to some degree 'high', the sensations increase their feelings of being high and the submissive enjoys that continuation. However, this is also how serious damage occurs. Once the chemistries retreat from the bloodstream and brain the submissive will feel everything.

The aftermath can be absolutely horrendous
in part because the Dominant will not
have known the damage they have delivered
until sometimes several days after the scene. (On one such event the effect of sub-drop on this one remained at an intense level of emotional and mental discomfort for almost a week!!)

When a couple have played together a fairly long time they tend to relax into an understanding of each other.

Entering and Managing Sub-Space..or
How Useful ARE Safewords in sub-Space?

At this point many submissives will be able to enter subspace quite easily and venture along the energy stream of their Dominant with deep trust. (The Dominant is the net or the safety string that returns the submissive to 'normal space'.)

Often both the Dominant and submissive will JOINTLY DECIDE to try something new or go somewhat further.

BOB & TOP:

This extension of previous limits can be made slightly more safe if the Dominant trains the submissive to 'bob and top', this is an exercise where the submissive can 'top on command' this means to achieve 'top or normal space' for a moment. Many submissives 'bob and top' to check bindings or pain (or general distress) levels. This may appear to contradict what I said earlier , it doesn't.

It is something that only 'some' submissives can do well while others can never achieve it cleanly. Most submissives can learn to do it and should to assist their Dominant in evaluating where they are.

Essentially the submissive can top and say something like "right wrist". That is generally about the extent of their ability to articulate speech.

They will usually revert back to their prior space almost instantly.

The Dominant is left with the cryptic comment which may mean that there is a sincere problem with the right wrist.

This tool can be used to aid the Dominant but should not be trusted to the point of removal of any primary responsibility. This tool is particularly helpful if the Dominant and submissive are experimenting with intense bondage or suspension. (Or fear & trust work)

Safety in edge play is tenuous at best.

The very best safety is simply the deeper understanding which can only be achieved by long term, frequent interaction.

People that play 'on the fly' or casually essentially cannot know their casual partner. The risks of doing damage increase dramatically.

To some degree people who desire heavy scening or edge play with basically unknown strangers are demonstrating potential mental problems. BDSM is not about a desire to be damaged. A sincere desire to be damaged or injured reflects a mental problem which reflects impaired judgment which by definition challenges the individuals ability to make sound, reasoned, safe, sane and consensual choices.

Tags: sub-zone:avoidthedrop | Edit Tags

Friday November 24, 2006 - 10:39pm (EST) Edit | Delete

Next Post: Lust Previous Post: If You Can Walk...You Can Dance

Comments

(2 total) Post a Comment

• [dele…

very informative and true...will leave a ty with Wicked

Saturday November 25, 2006 - 07:33am (PST) Remove Comment

• ~bekk…
• Offline

thank you sis for posting this very important information... especially for Dominants and submissives that have been coming out of the closet (or is it cummmmmmmmmmmmming out of the closet?) and finding out who T/they really are... *hugggggggggs*

Saturday December 23, 2006 - 05:11am (EST)

The Sub-Zone: Hitting the Wall

The Sub-Zone: Hitting the Wall

The Sub-Zone Part #1

In recent days i have been asked by some non-D/s friends to explain the sub-zone. In my next post i will discuss the sub-zone as i have experienced it over the years. Although naturally i will provide some outline of the chemical changes that occur, i can really only speak from my own experience but i am certain others will consider sharing theirs.


In the meantime, a very good article on the zone, risks and benefits is provided below. It is important to note that whilst this article refers to BDSM and Edge Play ...... not all D/s relationships contain Bondage, Discipline or Sado Masochisn. Many D/s relationships are in fact 'beating' and physical pain free. ..*smiles*... However, edge work still exists and is equally risky, especially when the sub is zoned... and doubly so if the Dom is experiencing Dom or Top zone (some call the latter bloodlust).


D/s is sometimes called the psychological end of the spectrum.... the 'mind' end ... and the mind can be both resilient and very, very delicate. It must be handled carefully.


Edge play is not just about toys, ropes, chains, shackles and pain levels it is about facing fears and for many, the fear is of letting go the mind and giving it over to the Dom completely. It can be as 'edgy' to be on a cam as it can being in a r/l situation with a knife to the flesh. Everyone's limits and fears are different.

This article, 'Hitting the Wall ' is reposted from Master Wicked's blog with His kind permission.

HITTING The WALL

BY

Wicked

The Wall: The Wall is one identification of the limit that the mind and body are physically capable of processing. Some submissives will talk about 'hitting the Wall' or 'White Out'. This is going so far that the mind loses the ability to cope and can dissociate or retreat from reality.

A submissive can and may go fetal in this state and it is not something you should ever try to achieve as it can and may have permanent or lasting effects.

It is to go beyond the threshold. Some people who experience such a graphic or traumatic event never return but remain essentially lost inside of their mind for the remainder of their lives.

This is serious and the only reason I am writing about it is that this threshold is something that it is important to be aware of the existence of. This is especially true if you are new to the BDSM lifestyle and perhaps unaware of the potentials with which you are playing.

The human mind is both strong and fragile. It should always be handled with the greatest care and concern.

The body has a finite capacity to process information. With every person the range of that ability varies. Within that range is further variation. For many people there is a real and true desire to achieve experiences just on the edge of that threshold. We tend to call this edge play.

In most cases Edge Play is a combination of sensory or physical stimulation coupled to mental and sometimes even spiritual stimulation. It is fairly easy to see the progress or path of physical stimulation techniques, it is much more difficult to evaluate or take a person mentally into differing space.

With an establishment of trust between a Dominant and a submissive the submissive will generally begin to lower their mental walls or shields and allow their Dominant greater and greater access into their private realms.

Trust is coupled to the ability to process information. The stronger the trust, the further the submissive will allow themselves to go.

Achieving space for a new submissive is generally accidental. There is a desire and a willingness to try and at some point that first barrier or mental threshold will be crossed and the submissive will find themselves 'in' space. Often this is a frightening and exciting experience.

A Dominant should not press that first experience of space but allow it to be full of pleasure and positive chemistries. This will encourage the submissive to actively 'go to that place' in their minds during a scene. To deepen their level of space the Dominant needs to proceed slowly and cautiously. It is essential to remember that trust is the key, if the Dominant says one thing and does another they are providing an unstable surface and the submissive will not trust them as deeply.

This will tend to prevent the submissive from releasing their vulnerability further. From a Dominant's standpoint the deeper you can take your submissive, the higher they can fly and the more stimulation they can sustain. Again it is important to note that there are sincere limits here.

Submissive's vary from day to day and moment to moment. On Monday they can space and be at maximum from having nipple clamps while on Tuesday they may need or want zipper's, full CBT or waxing to achieve the same euphoric state.

It becomes essential for the Dominant to become so attuned to their submissive's current state that they know where there submissive is at on any given day. There is no right or wrong here. It is merely that the brain may be full with other tasks on some days and only have the ability to 'allocate' a certain amount of space or energy toward processing.

With some submissives they will need and require more during times of stress (it almost appears that they become desensitized to lower levels of stimulation or need to overcome the 'stress' by higher levels) with other submissives their ability to process new stimulation during a period of stress is greatly reduced and in fact they may be unable to play during those times. Again, there is no right or wrong, simply variations.

Learning such intimacies between partners is crucial.

Making an error can propel a submissive into a horrendous event or a scene that they 'feel' later to have been in violation to their needs, wants and desires.

This leaves the Dominant in a somewhat precarious position if they only play with that submissive occasionally. They simply cannot know what is going on.

For deeper or edge play I sincerely recommend that the people involved spend a great deal of time together learning each other prior to attempting to play along the threshold. This is not an area where you want to make any mistakes in evaluation or judgment.

The deeper a submissive goes into subspace the worse their communication skills become (verbal).

The Dominant should assume that NOT ONLY can their submissive not evaluate what is dangerous to them, but that the chemistries flowing in their blood stream will essentially mask out their body signals which would normally tell them there are problems. When a submissive is in subspace all of the responsibility for that submissive's safety and welfare rest squarely on the Dominant.

A submissive in deep space can endure broken bones, severe lacerations and many other forms of severe damage without knowing it. Since this type of damage is not what BDSM is about it becomes very important for a Dominant to know not only their submissive's skin, tissue, bone and muscular responses to various implements or toys, but also the full potentials of each implement or toy.

Many submissives in deep space will appear or tend to encourage a Dominant into extending the play beyond the limits that a toy or implement has been used on them in the past. Essentially the submissive is to some degree 'high', the sensations increase their feelings of being high and the submissive enjoys that continuation.

However, this is also how serious damage occurs. Once the chemistries retreat from the bloodstream and brain the submissive will feel everything.

The aftermath can be absolutely horrendous in part because the Dominant will not have known the damage they have delivered until sometimes several days after the scene.

When a couple have played together a fairly long time they tend to relax into an understanding of each other. At this point many submissives will be able to enter subspace quite easily and venture along the energy stream of their Dominant with deep trust: the Dominant is the net or the safety string that returns the submissive to 'normal space'. Often both the Dominant and submissive will jointly decide to try something new or go somewhat further.

This extension of previous limits can be made slightly more safe if the Dominant trains the submissive to 'bob and top', this is an exercise where the submissive can 'top on command' this means to achieve 'top or normal space' for a moment. Many submissives 'bob and top' to check bindings or pain levels. This may appear to contradict what I said earlier , it doesn't. It is something that only 'some' submissives can do well while others can never achieve it cleanly.

Most submissives can learn to do it and should to assist their Dominant in evaluating where they are. Essentially the submissive can top and say something like "right wrist".

That is generally about the extent of their ability to articulate speech. They will usually revert back to their prior space almost instantly. The Dominant is left with the cryptic comment which may mean that there is a sincere problem with the right wrist. This tool can be used to aid the Dominant but should not be trusted to the point of removal of any primary responsibility.

This tool is particularly helpful if the Dominant and submissive are experimenting with intense bondage or suspension.

Safety in edge play is tenuous at best. The very best safety is simply the deeper understanding which can only be achieved by long term, frequent interaction. People that play 'on the fly' or casually essentially cannot know their casual partner. The risks of doing damage increase dramatically.

To some degree people who desire heavy scening or edge play with basically unknown strangers are demonstrating potential mental problems. BDSM is not about a desire to be damaged. A sincere desire to be damaged or injured reflects a mental problem which reflects impaired judgment which by definition challenges the individuals ability to make sound, reasoned, safe, sane and consensual choices.

Saturday September 16, 2006 - 05:04pm (CDT)

http://360.yahoo.com/profile-Yf8beDomcqV7g1ReWujUOBKL88mZNI.8

Tags: sub-zone:crash | Edit Tags

Saturday November 18, 2006 - 09:57pm (EST) Edit | Delete

Next Post: Saturday Night!!!!! Previous Post: In answer to the Question...YES

Comments

(6 total) Post a Comment

• ~bekk…
• Offline

thank you blonde for sharing this information. i skimmed the article, and will go back and re-read it... you always find cool stuff for us to read! bekka

Saturday November 18, 2006 - 07:35am (EST) Remove Comment

• pandy…
• Offline IM

*smile* i'm getting a better understanding of what you speak about. thank you for the education

Saturday November 18, 2006 - 08:23am (EST) Remove Comment

• THE B…
• Offline

Thank heavens for so many able and informed writers on these matters... who allow their work to be reposted here....*grateful smiles*

Sunday November 19, 2006 - 01:42am (EST) Remove Comment

• [dele…

ok, here's my take on this.

"edge play" occurs in close, devoted relationships that aren't in the least way like a D/s bond. it's just as intense but without the toys, tools, straps and other accoutrements used.
the thing is, in a non-D/s association, both partners can allow themselves to go into the zone. there's no control from either, it's an equal merger. basically they both submit to it, without the power and obedience aspects.

it's called "love", and i'm not saying that the Dominant doesn't love his/her sub, it's just an alternate zone involved there.

you can lose your mind, body, heart and soul in any relationship if it's real.

Saturday November 18, 2006 - 10:37am (PST) Remove Comment

• Scare…
• Offline

Excellent

Sunday November 19, 2006 - 06:43pm (EST) Remove Comment

• sophi…
• Offline IM

A wonderful article. I have experienced a form of sub-zoning ... lucky for me I had a wonderful, loving and caring Master to bring me back down from this level. We learnt this together and yes, I could never have done it without the deep level of trust involved.

Sunday November 19, 2006 - 07:30pm (EST)

FREE SPEECH

FREE SPEECH

"Everybody is in favor of free speech.
Hardly a day passes without its being extolled,
but some people's idea of it is that
they are free to say what they like,
but if anyone says anything back,
that is an outrage."


Sir Winston Churchill
Speech, House of Commons, 1943

Tags: thoughtson:freespeech1

Wednesday October 11, 2006 - 06:05pm (EST)

Comments

(5 total) Post a Comment

• pandy…
• Offline IM

Well said and simply put. Hugs blonderaven. Amazing also that people seem to feel their free speech comes without reprecussions.

Wednesday October 11, 2006 - 06:39am (EDT) Remove Comment

• Scare…
• Offline

Of course there are places where the rulers extoll the virtues of free speech...as long as you don't say things we don't like...

Wednesday October 11, 2006 - 09:30pm (EST) Remove Comment

• …
• Offline

and then - free speech, it was rueld, is not the right to shout fire in a facked theater...

Wednesday October 11, 2006 - 08:36am (PDT) Remove Comment

• purr/…
• Offline

Yes..I agree with Sir Winnie... gets tedious hearing people bleating interminabley and then getting entirely cross when others disagree.

Thursday October 12, 2006 - 07:10pm (EST) Remove Comment

• range…
• Offline

Brava!!!....free speech is only that when we are ALL allowed to say what we believe. We may not agree with what is being said, but we should agree with their right to say it... *smiles and greetings blonderaven...* Hope all is well is your world..

Thursday October 12, 2006 - 10:55am

Intimacy, Alter- Egos and Informed Consent

One of the issues that continues to be raised is that of security and safety online. This does not only refer to physical security ..but if one is embarking on an online relationship of a more intimate and potentially long-standing nature, emotional safety and security is paramount.


Note: This post does not refer here to mutual masturbatory, fantasy or cyber ' role play games' (or even the cyber equivalent of a one-night stand) where the identity and real time circumstances of the O/other may be of variable interest to B/both involved. It refers to relationships of a more progressive , emotionally invested and intimate nature.


It is important to know as much as possible about the person with whom Y/you are investing time and emotion and for W/whom Y/you are potentially going to be making some significant life changes; changes that may affect Y/you and Y/your children, extended family, employment, finances and even may involve relocation . In D/s online relationships this is particularly important given the power exchange elements that are involved.

Leaving 'sane' alone at this time... D/s raises the ante and the risk for B/both parties.

Power exchange requires
trust and Informed Consent.

Informed consent is agreement to do something or to allow something to happen only after all the relevant facts are disclosed. This does not apply only to medical procedures. In contracts an agreement may be reached only if there has been full disclosure by both parties of everything each party knows which is significant to the agreement and is pertinent to making an informed decision. Informed Consent is required of B/both parties in a D/s relationship.

It is a principled and dare I say, even respectful approach. To give and accept 'power', there needs to be a great deal of honesty - about real personal circumstances eg: gender, married or otherwise attached, age (especially relating to State statutory 'rape' laws), health (communicable diseases, serious or ongoing physical and mental illness etc), criminal record (perhaps even current incarceration) and a pragmatic assessment of the availability of time to maintain the relationship online ... to name but a few elements.

Before power exchange is embarked upon and certainly the moment emotional investment, ongoing need or dependence on each O/other becomes apparent to E/either, knowing and being able to confirm as much as possible to W/whom and under what circumstances power is given and accepted is a basic requirement. Once emotions are engaged this becomes a non-negotiable essential!


Where P/people are in an existing relationship or have at least physically met and assured themselves of compatibility and that T/they are W/who and what T/they present T/themselves to be ... technology facilitates ongoing communication; particularly useful when work or other commitments keep the couple apart.


However, where a relationship commences and is conducted largely online in addition to keyboard:
1) What can assist in the establishment phase of a long distance relationship where there is no existing real time/offline relationship?
2) How can sound foundations and trust between P/people embarking on a more intimate or even the more complex D/s style relationship be achieved realistically?


VOICE/HEADSET:

Voice adds another essential level of knowledge and intimate connection. When voice through headset is used.. via 360 ... all contact is free of charge. This is very helpful to T/those W/who would otherwise need to pay interstate and international call costs.

Cheap, simple and Most P/people online have a computer capable of taking a headset that can be purchased from under $20 from Walmart, Tandy or Office Depot.


FACE TO FACE:

No longer restricted to businesses (which recognised the importance of face to face and voice contact) the effectiveness of video-conferencing is now readily available with the addition of a cam and headset to most pc's and laptop users. When cam is used - not for 'sexual' purposes - but to actually see the O/other talking on headset in real time... to see their face , their eyes, their personal gestures and ahhhhh - their smile!!!! ... then this takes the relationship to a whole new level.

Of course there is no substitute for standing in front of E/each O/other but at the most basic level ... what T/they actually look and sound like in real time, how T/they interact with Y/you 'face to face' adds another essential element of knowledge and security - and yes, intimacy. After all, if O/one is to pledge O/one's love, commitment and devotion it is helpful and sensible to know to W/whom one is thus pledged at the most basic of levels - otherwise, caveat emptor applies.


When voice and face are combined even with two cam screens at the top of the pc screen.. a level of real time exchange is achieved. .. NOW there is a deeper level of communication! .. There is no substitute for eye to eye even if it has to be done via a camera.

Cams may be purchased from as little as $30 new and much cheaper through E-bay. . *w* .. and it's a blast when a few are on talking and waving and dogs and cats are running amok in the background! *LOL* Small price to pay for another level of security, to enhance a relationship and strengthen foundations.

Cell Phone Cam:


Most cell phones now have an inbuilt camera and video which can be used to take and send pics. This is a very simple method of staying in touch and keeping each O/other up to date on a daily basis. Y/you may need to check charges with Y/your telephone company, but often this costs little more than a text message depending on Y/your carrier.

The above are quite common methods of communication in 2007 and many internet cafes, public libraries and college/University libraries have pc's audio-visually equipped and available for use.



In light of recent circumstances and events. If Y/you are concerned that 'alter' and simultaneous identities have been adopted to get 'close' to Y/you and IF this concerns Y/you, a group voice conference with cam involving all parties can remove doubt and go some way to ensure that Informed Consent is available to Y/you in Y/your online relationships.

Tags: informedconsent | Edit Tags

Sunday June 17, 2007 - 08:19am (EST) Edit | Delete

Next Post: Such are the Days of O/our Lives.... Previous Post: THE Blonde: A Caution.

Comments

(9 total) Post a Comment

• Jessa…
• Offline

Again, great points, raven.

As you said, informed consent is vital since it's something that NEEDS to be done. And it's not simply for the "submissive" party, but for both.

Also as for the voice/cam/picture portion. There are cameras that are both digital and for web use that are under $20 (usually 10-15) everywhere from Dollar Stores to Walmart *or their sister stores*. Mics are also available in all price ranges, starting relatively low and going into the higher range. No one says that they have to be the most high tech, expensive models available, but simply a way to see and hear each other on a new level. Seems a small price to pay if you're "serious" about each other.

I've noticed through my interactions that there are people that I've cammed with, people that I've voiced with, and people that I've exchanged pictures with and then there are people that I don't take the time or energy to find the headset or camera for. The people that I've "seen" and "heard" are usually the people I'm closest to, whereas the people that I've never bothered with aren't people that I feel connected to.

To me that says something. It says that if I'm not intested enough to see or hear a person then I'm not serious about the "relationship" *in my case friendship*. So to me, someone who I don't ask to see or hear, or someone that I just don't consider seeing or hearing isn't really in the "inner circle". I'm not as close to them, don't feel as connected to.

I agree that voice/cam/pictures are one way to assure each other that you want to know them more. That you are who you say you are. That they are who they say they are. And at this point, with all the "outing" it is probably the safest way to go.

Saturday June 16, 2007 - 06:42pm (EDT) Remove Comment

• Jaily…
• Offline

i cannot think of a more delightful way to get to know friends, than to be able to voice chat on Yahoo, or see them on cam. preferraby, both are the way to go. goodness knows i've voiced with a few wonderful friends lately, and also *smiles affectionately* through phone calls.

the moment that someone states they don't have a microphone, cam, or headset, i am a bit sceptical, as this sets off alarm bells for me. too, it can be said about "supposed" close friends who refuse to give their phone number, even after supposed trust has been established. where does this trust really go?

yes, i do understand, at times, the inability to voice or cam due to hubby or wife being around, or financially unable to afford a headset or cam, but c'mon, if you can afford the internet for the usual cost of 40ish dollars a month, you can afford a one-time fee of 15 or 20 dollars to buy a microphone. IMHO

Sunday June 17, 2007 - 09:49am (EST) Remove Comment

• ~bekk…
• Offline

another wonderful blog from you, dear blondesis! i am not going to voice what ~ember~ and Jessa have already said ~ i could not agree with them more!!! there need to be an ability to hear and see the One that you are exploring with ~ call it accountability regarding who O/one is. many times i have declined further contact with Ones that do not have webcams and/or headsets w/mics, and have gotten excuses ranging from not wanting their r/t partner to know what they are doing to not having the resources available. to me, if someO/one is not willing to do these two simple things, then perhaps T/they are not who or what T/they say they are... *shrugs*

Saturday June 16, 2007 - 09:32pm (EDT) Remove Comment

• [dele…

Amazingly good. You made some excellent points. Typing is one thing, but the more real you make it the better. I remember seeing you for the first time- you were just what I expected, but it injects an element of reality into things, makes the other person so much more multi-dimensional and changes the construct of them in your head. (you have a great voice too!) Whether you're doing it to check someone out, or just add an extra dimension to your relationship, it makes a big difference. I seem to recall we did it just on a whim, but it made you much more real- now I can "see" you when you type too.

You're so right about trust. Without that, you have no basis for a relationship that can keep itself alive and healthy. Eventually, before you can go to the next level, You need some reality to develop trust. Without trust, doubt is an insidious little worm that can strangle any relationship, especially a D/s one. Excellent post, raven. As usual!

Saturday June 16, 2007 - 06:51pm (PDT) Remove Comment

• THE B…
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and i will say that i have spoken in r/t and on cam to A/all of Y/you and several more and there is no better way to 'get real' than to see each O/other when distance is involved. Y/you were A/all as Y/you claimed to be.

So much fun and some great highlights - waving at Fen and thinking how much He really DID look like the CIS chap Gil-something, having a smoke, coffee and a chat with Leatherneck, waving and grinning like a child at erotica, laughing uproariously with Nemmie, bekka taking me on a tour of her home and her china collection, lushy with the divine Dougall 'talking' in the background and laughing with lushy and pandy as Mac wrestled with technology, seeing that TQ looks EXACTLY like the pic on His page.

There is an added richness and connection that goes beyond the limited dimension of a keyboard and where friendship - and yes, love is concerned - it removes the fantasy element and establishes a reality-based approach which ensures more realistic expectations.

After all ... how can one seriously express undying love and total commitment and yes, even make demands when the face and the expressions of the 'beloved' is unknown.

It is a compulsion ingrained in the human condition to seek and search the features of the face of the beloved, to 'read' the non-verbals, to 'touch' in every way possible.

And if an online relationship is to go beyond that limited dimension, seeing and talking to each other in real time even via cam and headset sure does minimise and unexpected surprises ... and *w* also helps with immediate recognition and comfort when meeting at airports and coffee shops!

So, let's brew the tea and coffee, get the cams up and have a party P/people!

Sunday June 17, 2007 - 03:06pm (EST) Remove Comment

• Capt.…
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By Mandate of the International World Beautifcation Treaty of 2002...I am not allowed by Law to show My face on any image capturing devices. I know, I know...I can hear the sighs of relief and shouts of gratitude from here.

Sunday June 17, 2007 - 03:36am (CDT) Remove Comment

• THE B…
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*LOL* ... but You are soooo handsome SDS!

Sunday June 17, 2007 - 11:18pm (EST) Remove Comment

• ஜღcat…
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isn't technology amazing? i've yet to get a webcam to work again on mine .. one day i will .. i had one once and all that the men wanted to see was me naked so i threw the blasted thing out.. then tried later down the road and puter had been fried so that didnt work and that is where that stands!! .. i loved seeing you on webcam .. you are just like your pics .. son has a new puter .. me im content with what i have .. no patience to learn the new vista program .. ~giggles~ .. anyways .. i do hope all is well with you sister and Aragorn .. that things are falling into place nicely for Y/you .. take care and be well .. and enjoy Y/your life together .. ~huge smile on my face~ ~big hugs and lots of love~ belle

Sunday June 17, 2007 - 10:55am (CDT) Remove Comment

• [dele…

I agree that if you want to get to be even closer with someone you're developing intimacy with, seeing and hearing them can make them more "alive" in your mind. I'm not a big cam or voice person unless it's at a real intimate stage- but I don't like to wear those "hello, my name is" tags either, so don't go by me.

I would like to remind everyone, however, that when it comes to meeting security, just knowing what someone looks like isn't a lot of help. Yeah, you can be assured the person you're talking to doesn't look like some of your other friends (unless the person is skillful with makeup and wigs), but I see it more for building on something that's already there. I would refer people back to the security blogs you did a few months ago for the best advice I've seen on that. Teddy did some great blogs too, but those were deleted 3 or 4 identities ago. *sighs*

After reading some of the things I have recently, I know that psychopaths can look very charming, and people with explosive rage can be very sweet unless enraged. Remember Scott Peterson? Don't, for heaven's sake, forget to be careful before you make that meeting. Raven, you're such a voice of care and concern for all of us, thanks for watching out for our welfare in every way. (Maybe it's time to re-run those security blogs...I might know a good forum for that *winks*)

Sunday June 17, 2007 - 11:01am (PDT)